Should I chose Vaadin if so then Vaadin 7.0 ? or just start with 6.8


Hi Vaadin Forum


My Question is to Expert members of Vaadin.

I am new To Vaadin. I study a littel bit About Vaadin.
I came here to Know from Vaadin experts that I am a final year Student Of BIT . I want to implement my final year Project. My project is a web based application for a Company. I need lot of AJAX and java scripting to give liquid effect to my app…Also I need extensive Data handling and Lot of Security with My APP.

Some people saying Vaadin is not a mature Frame Work. It is Not Secure. so avoid it. But

I want to know From you guys that should i start my Project in Vaadin ? if so then should I wait for Vaadin 7.0 or just start with 6.8.latest build…

Thanks.
Sara Sheikh.

Strange comments from those “some people”.

One of the strong points of Vaadin is security - because it abstracts cleanly away from web and keeps all you conde on the server-side, it is probably the most secure RIA framework on the market at the moment.

Vaadin has been around and in production use since 2001. Few other web frameworks can show as long history behind it as Vaadin.

That is a really good question with no correct answer. We are expecting to see Vaadin 7 beta 1 in few weeks and Vaadin 7 released in 7 weeks or so. This makes it tempting for a project to start with Vaadin 7.

That said - there are still quite a few rough edges in Vaadin 7 and documentation quality will be lacking behind Vaadin 6 quite a lot even after Vaadin 7 release. Furthermore - many of the add-ones are not yet available for Vaadin 7.

You you want to live on the bleeding edge, choose Vaadin 7. If you want to get your project done and can live without all the new shiny bells and whistles of Vaadin 7, go with Vaadin 6. We are planning to maintain it for almost 2 more years.

Mr. Joonas Lehtinen thanks for your detailed Ans.

“Some People” are My project Supervisors.

They warn us that “Vaadin is still immature and has many bugs and it is under development. Developing over Vaadin frame work is risky. and you people i.e me and my other group members will not get any help if you got stuck. etc”

Now except All arguments … I Only worry if , in any case, we stuck where should we get help. Because book of Vaadin is not in depth.

Is this forum fully committed to provide help and welcome the new Comers ?

Thanks
Sara J. Sheikh

Every popular framework has many bugs and is under development. Some pointers

Pick any popular application or framework and take a look at their development. If it is not under development, it probably means that the product is dead. If it does not have any bugs listed in open bug tracking system, it probably means that no-one is really using the product.

I hope that you find the forum friendly and approachable. That said - you will not find a community forum where you would get a commitment or guarantee for solving any problems you post.
[/quote]

Sir Joonas Lehtinen.
Thanks .
I appreciate your guidance and I will also do More research on Vaadin. I feeling Happy with Vaadin Because of Its Coding Style and tension free from Html etc.

I hope you Guys will guide us If we need. Thanks to you and All Vaadin Community. May Be One Day we can do some thing for Vaadin.

Regards
Sara J.Sheikh

Hello Sara

I faced the same question about 3 months ago. I’m very picky (as some friends say :slight_smile: ) and I was starting a new project. I wanted many things, so the short history is my choice of Vaadin 6.x and OSGi.

I think that the 6.x series is worth learning because even with the 7.x series starting in about 2 months, the differences should not be too heavy. Also, I tend to skip all .0 releases, unless I want something cutting-edge. It’s good to wait for the larger field testing and the incremental maintenance that results. So, for me (very personal opinion) 7.0=>good for play, 7.1=>good for work. Well, 7.0.5 may be good for work too :slight_smile:

About the maturity of the framework, I always start my research googling “{whatever-framework-name} problem”. Do it yourself, go search Vaadin problem. Take a look and see what is happening, when problem happened, and whether it was solved or not. Look also the “kind” of problem, and how much angry are the people. You can get a very good picture of what is waiting for you. I discovered also that many think Vaadin is new because of the name changing in 2009, they were IT Mill previously.

I found the “dark side” of Vaadin quite acceptable. There are lots of good people working with. They are usually very kind and gentle.

Finally, I always look at how the project leaders behave. I suggest you to take a look at: http://dev.vaadin.com/ticket/1764 for an example.

You’ll find this:

[i]
Changed 4 years ago by Joonas Lehtinen

Status changed from closed to reopened
Resolution wontfix deleted
IMO this needs to be fixed on a framework level - we can not just expect the user of the framework to know about this bug and somehow find a way to avoid it.
[/i]

This made clear to me how serious and honest is the approach regarding Vaadin. Of course this is an imperfect world, with imperfect people and less than perfect frameworks :slight_smile: But, as I say sometimes, you can pick your own hell. So, pick a hell that you like. I’m happy with mine.

One key aspect for your managers is that there is professional support for Vaadin. You can always ask the questions directly at the Vaadin team and get an answer, should the forum not be quick enough…

To Jean-François Lamy

Sir As I am beginner to Vaadin , I just Listened to people about Vaadin and Frighted … But It seems Vaadin Community is very Friendly and Hmmm Not so Quick but Friendly.

Thanks

I would agree with Joonas that any framework that’s not under active development is dead. Any fancy feature out there would need to be implemented hard way by yourself.
I’ve been using Vaadin for 2 years and I have to say that the biggest challenge for me is to accept the abstraction layer that Vaadin is creating and all consequences related to it. This is actually not specific to Vaadin but any other framework. So, you have to make sure, that whatever framework you choose, it is flexible enough to allow you to skip entire abstraction layer and do stuff manually if necessary.

Seems like Vaadin 7 is giving more of that flexibility (more access to JavaScript API and other JavaScript libraries to choose, more flexible custom components, rely more on client side, HTTP and RCP info available, etc.). This gives your more freedom and flexibility.

The biggest concern about Vaadin I currently have, is HTML rendering performance and stateful scope of the framework. I hope that Vaadin 7 will fix at least few performance issues related with HTML rendering. However, I still have hard time to understand why Vaadin is not trying to move to more stateless mode.

Also, just because your are using a framework (including Vaadin) that doesn’t mean you can forget all about HTML, JavaScript, CSS, etc. At the end, it’s just the tool (or framework).

Bottom line, since you are new to Vaadin, I would recommend to start playing with current version and then switch to 7. Yes, there might be some compatibility issues, but at least, your would feel comfortable enough to make a decision if you want to switch to V7 or totally something new at that time.

Also, something I discovered yesterday. Vaadin 7 will require java 6. This mean that your server/runtime would need to be using that version too.
Perhaps, this could be yet another decision point you have to make when choosing between Vaadin 6 or 7.

Marcin Koziarski

Yes i want this flexibility … I want want my aap should have liquid effect , dynamic transitions of menu and layout div etc… and I am also using Java 6

But As
Sir Joonas said it is better to start with Vaadin 6 because it has more help over forum and also most of the Vaadin add-ons works with Vaadin 6.

So i just started Vaadin 6.8.2 .first i developed my version of address book from tutorials Now I am getting my hands dirty with My project…:slight_smile:

Lot of this will be fixed in 7.0: by dropping support for IE 6 and IE7 we are able to use layouting engines built into browsers instead of doing all the calculation in JavaScript. That said - there are more optimizations coming up with 7.x releases.

We just haven’t figured out a way to do this without adding a lot of complexity for the development with the framework. All ideas are welcome! (But please open up a another thread for them).